Internet Marketing Podcast Show Now 19
In this podcast Luis and I discuss email marketing and Luis officially goes on a rampage naming and shaming a well known property expert, turned Internet Marketing “guru” – this is a podcast you don’t want to miss.
And please add your comments below and discuss the show.
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Luis Teixeira from www.luisteixeira.co.za said,
Wrote on July 30, 2009 @ 10:22 am
Sheez I can not wait for all the response!!!
This is going to be FUN!
Ryan Carmichael said,
Wrote on July 30, 2009 @ 10:29 am
I had some problems getting this podcast off itunes, it might just be my slow internet connection, anyway busy downloading it off the site now!
Internet Marketing Podcast No:19 said,
Wrote on July 30, 2009 @ 10:43 am
[...] Internet Marketing Podcast No:19 [...]
Johan said,
Wrote on July 30, 2009 @ 10:55 am
Hi Luis, Online marketing is great if your site is working. You need to fix yours as it is crashing (not from traffic)
Janie Engels said,
Wrote on July 30, 2009 @ 10:59 am
Funny thing I saw that post on the Hannes Dreyer blog and I thought the exact same thing. One wonders if he is so good with his property stuff why now the online marketing thing.
Anyway guys great podcast and thank you for all the information.
Tim said,
Wrote on July 30, 2009 @ 11:04 am
Great podcast chaps, and I love the name and shame thing Luis, you go pal, tell those sneaky people where to get off.
God Bless!
Ryan Carmichael said,
Wrote on July 30, 2009 @ 11:11 am
@ Johan, you don’t need to be sarcastic, if you have input to offer Luis and Justin then do it with a level of respect, because they are here helping all of us.
Saying that someone’s site is down “and not from traffic” is just silly… and you know they say sarcasm is the lowest from of wit!!
Just finished listing to the podcast and although you covered some basic stuff about email marketing I found the part about building customers lists especially valuable.
As for the name and shame them, I love it. And just for the record I have had no problem accessing this site or Luis site.
Mark Langford said,
Wrote on July 30, 2009 @ 11:19 am
Shew you guys are a sensitive bunch, but I have to say I love the interaction, I have never seen this on other blog before.
Great show, well done Luis and Justin!
John said,
Wrote on July 30, 2009 @ 11:31 am
@ Johan
Dude I have learnt the hard way that if you make derogatory comments on Justin Harrisons blog and they are not helpful or at the very least factual then you’re in for a lashing from the community here.
I also had not problem getting on your site Luis, although I can offer some constructive criticism and that is that you site layout is a little overwhelming and you could arrange stuff a but better like here on Justin’s site (and no I am not trying to be the teachers pet) – just my opinion!
Elliot Feizel said,
Wrote on July 30, 2009 @ 11:34 am
This is the first podcast I have listened to and I really enjoyed it. I love the down the earth style of communication, so I am off to download all the other podcasts now.
Werner said,
Wrote on July 30, 2009 @ 11:53 am
On the hannes dreyer point, I did follow the release of his product. What i can say is that I think his post of $80 000 in the first day of operation seems very dishonest to me, because from what I could gather they spent 2 months before the day apparent “1st day of operation” to create a email list.
And the amount is also not completely justified because hannes used some of the list following him to generate part of the income he claims as being part of the 1st operational day, by charging R7500 to be able to see the “1st day of operations” progress and an in depth explanation of the process. No idea if it really was in-depth. Maybe somebody who paid the R7500 for the day can comment on that.
But that part he was promoting to people for at least 2 months.
Graeme Fry said,
Wrote on July 30, 2009 @ 12:08 pm
Never heard of this Hannes person before, but I am always a sceptic when people say they will show you how but only if you add your credit card details here…
If you look at Justin, he is doing a free webinar to share the way he did his seo project, now to me that’s genuine, not because its free but because we can see what he does, and then if he has something to sell I will buy.
Leon said,
Wrote on July 30, 2009 @ 12:09 pm
Hiya,
As an addendum to the Hannes Dreyer “name and shame”:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNtDS19TRSI&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fkaizen-wealth.com%2Fthank-you-for-form-submission.html&feature=player_embedded
Werner said,
Wrote on July 30, 2009 @ 12:34 pm
Hi Leon
I know you are the $80 000 in 1 day guy. SO you can tell us was it truly a one day process? and was it a completely new business you setup?
If possible can you also tell us which business it was you where promoting? or will that give your trade secrets away?
Lance said,
Wrote on July 30, 2009 @ 12:48 pm
I don’t know Hannes Dreyer personally, but what I can tell you that even if these numbers are true (which is more than possible) what I find deceptive is that most Internet Marketers are selling the system, kind of like Amway and other network marketing products, everyone is selling the business opportunity and nobody is selling the actual products.
Also another point that upsets me is that saying that this was all created in one day, it is rubbish, it makes it sound like for new people that you just press a button and wham you’ve got money, when we all know there is a great deal of work that goes into the back of the business.
Deborah Jones said,
Wrote on July 30, 2009 @ 12:54 pm
@ Werner & Leon if you guys are the “$80,000.00 day guys, what are you doing here on this blog?
As for the youtube channel video, I did not see any proof just a bunch of guys standing around.
As always I see this site brings about a healthy debate.
Jayne Harris said,
Wrote on July 30, 2009 @ 12:56 pm
Nice podcast, really enjoy the content and also the relaxed style that you guys present the content in.
Rob Anderson said,
Wrote on July 30, 2009 @ 12:58 pm
hi guys.
nice to hear south africans interacting online.
but.
i am not sure that i really do have the same number of hours a day. as i get older the days seem to go faster.
i think i am down to about an 18 hour day. but it is ok, i will just work harder. :+)
cheers.
Roelof Vermeulen said,
Wrote on July 30, 2009 @ 1:02 pm
Hi guys, enjoyed your podcast. Would like to raise the Hannes Dreyer issue and specifically the challenge you raised. Hannes did in fact make that money of the internet, however what you should ask for is proof that he didn’t make it selling people a dream.
The strength in Hannes Dreyer lies in the fact that he knows how to make money and that he is an excellent salesman. There is absolutely no argument there. The fact that he does it through property is not of great importance. His skill can be applied in any kind of business.
However, he has much to learn about internet marketing in general. If he made this money without applying one of the following techniques he is all legit imo.
- Build a website from scratch and launched it with a legitimate product or service.
- Didn’t spam!
- Didn’t use an existing client base to distribute it with.
else… he is selling a pipe dream. On the last point getting a proper and legit database in place takes months to years. If he has proof he did all this in 24 hours, wonderful.
Justin, I really enjoy your hard line on FACTS! Your principles and experience with regards to Email marketing came to the fore in this podcast and it is truly enjoyable to listen to someone speaking straight facts for a change.
Werner said,
Wrote on July 30, 2009 @ 1:12 pm
@ Deborah, The Werner & Leon mentioned in the podcast is not the $80 000 guys. We are just property investors who attended Hannes Dreyers property course years ago.
The Leon who posted the video on the blog is the build-a-web.com ($80 000) guy. I think.
Leon said,
Wrote on July 30, 2009 @ 1:13 pm
I am not the same Leon.
James Tennyson said,
Wrote on July 30, 2009 @ 1:15 pm
@ Roelof Vermeulen – you make some very good points about this whole debate, and I agree 100% with what you have said, if he can provide proof that he created this business from scratch not using the leverage of any existing client databases, then he is legit, otherwise as you say its all selling a BS dream.
As for Justin sticking to the facts, he is a straight shooter who I have personally come to trust because he does not sugar coat anything ever, and I respect that.
Werner said,
Wrote on July 30, 2009 @ 1:15 pm
my apologies then Leon. Did you do the course?
Leon T. said,
Wrote on July 30, 2009 @ 1:18 pm
I think I will refer to myself as Leon T. from now on to avoid any misunderstandings.
I did not do the course, I have just done Hannes Dreyer’s Property courses. I have no idea how they did it.
I have some of my own web businesses, and I know its hard work.
I only posted the youtube link seeing as I am a member of Hannes Dreyer’s mailing list and it might have provided additional information to people looking into this issue.
Justin Harrison said,
Wrote on July 30, 2009 @ 1:26 pm
I think @ Roelof Vermeulen hit the nail on the head here, none of us doubt that these numbers are possible, however the fact that the idea is being promoted that within 24 hours anyone can do the same just aint the truth or accurate, unless you are using some serious marketing leverage like an existing client or prospect database to go to.
However if that is not the case I would personally challenge Mr Hannes Dryer to step up and show evidence of this, then I would be more than happy to offer my stamp of approval on his “website money making system”.
Those of you currently mentoring under me know that there are no shortcuts to building a long term sustainable business and as @ Leon T (ag that’s cute man by the way), said this business is damn hard work, and you have to scale up over time.
Justin said,
Wrote on July 31, 2009 @ 1:30 pm
Hello Gents,
Once again, thank you for an entertaining podcast
Yes, Aweber rocks. I’ve been using them for the past year and can only give positive feedback.
Pat said,
Wrote on August 1, 2009 @ 10:56 am
You see I stumbled upon this podcast after looking at some of Justin’s products, and I wanted to find out who Justin is and what he is about.
I am confused. I have had a look at the comments and I listened to the podcast, but there is no proof for the assumptions. Where is the link to the website where Hannes sells the so called pipe dream? (I am not talking about his blog at http://hannesdreyer.blogspot.com/, as it is not there, and I checked, and he has not asked anyone on there for their money as far as I can tell, but instead he promises a free ebook). And with regards to Hannes not responding to comments, I have seen him responding, but I also understand that he does not need to, because his list must be very responsive in any case for him to achieve these successes. So he must be doing something smart.
I have been following his teachings for some time now, and I haven’t met anyone else with the same level of honesty and integrity. Also on his blog that you mentioned, I saw that he used a database of less than 500 people. Now how can that take you 2 months to gather. I have that many contacts only on my cellphone. All I can say is, that if you say you have 5 Million people in your list as per your podcast, and if 500 takes two months, then according to my calculations you will take more than a thousand years to get 5 million then. I know and hope you have 5 million people in your list, because then it proofs to me it is possible to get 500 people instantly, and that all of this is possible.
And also Roelof, I do not understand how you can say that he has much to learn about Internet Marketing if he has already been successful on the internet in any case. If that is true, then all of us has even more to learn.
With Hannes I can honestly say I always know what I am in for, and he always gives value or something for of tremendous value for free. For example he is giving the build-a-web.com course free of charge which I was quoted for about $800 elsewhere. I also see that Justin has a similar concept, but it seems closed for the public, and that you need to pay for what I get for free.
I have always perceived that prominent Internet Marketers do not compete in a negative way, but rather work together, in order to strengthen each other. I have also learned that they can do so in many forms such as JV’s and Affiliations and so on. However it seems that in South Africa things works differently then.
Alex said,
Wrote on August 3, 2009 @ 8:57 am
Luis and Justin, great podcast thank you for the valuable information, please count me in for the webinar also.
Justin Harrison said,
Wrote on August 3, 2009 @ 9:28 am
Hi Pat, and welcome to the blog.
Firstly I think you might have misinterpreted or not fully understood what we communicated about the Hannes Dryer subject, and before I reiterate the point being made let, me clearly point out that we did not say that “Hannes does not respond to comments” – infact I am not sure where you picked that up???
What we did do is challenge Hannes to provide evidence of this income being made and more specifically to reveal the product, and detail how long it took to build up to the launch and the real work that it took to get to that point.
Luis felt, as did I and many of the people here that the claim that Hannes made (although very realistic in this market) is not entirely accurate or possible without using some serious leverage points, like an existing client database, or contacts, I honestly doubt that that amount of money was generated off only 500 contacts.
The problem in this market is that everyone tells people that they made X amount in 24 or 48 hours, but they fail to tell people that it took 3- 4 months of solid work to build to that point and that this is not possible without some serious leverage.
Also very importantly as Roelof stated, it would be even more credible if this money was generated selling a product outside of the IM to IM opportunity space.
As for your Build a website course being free, that may or may not be true (I don’t know the details of the program), but from what I can see it is being monetised by affiliate links to the resources, and therefore you are paying indirectly.
As for my “similar concept” you could not be further off from the mark, because the site you are referring to the http://www.internetmarketingupstart.com/ is actually a closed door mentorship program of which there are currently only 7 members which I took into the program a year ago.
Also Pat, something you need to be aware of is that whilst my contact lists are over 5 million strong, I am in 76 markets (outside of the internet marketing to internet marketing space) and more significantly I have been building these lists and the relationships with these lists for the past 10 years.
As a final note, I gather from the tone of your comment that you feel like we are attacking Hannes, however this is not the case, we are simply stating that we are all tired of people selling a “pipe dream” which is to always tell people about the results but conveniently leave out the kind of work and effort it took to get there.
What the market needs is less JV’s and Affiliate Punting and more transparency and that’s what we aim to bring to our community.
Pat said,
Wrote on August 3, 2009 @ 10:55 am
Justin,
Funny, I see him doing this in several markets or niches, and repeating his concepts over and over again. I did his mentoring course as well and there he has proven to launch several businesses within a short period of time, with all the proof also on that website (http://www.hannesdreyer.co.za). Also I do not know what this business is that he launched, and I think it is speculation that it is in the IM niche, however I am of the opinion that the niche is not the important part, but as you said in your podcast, the relationship with your customer is important.
For your information, I have copied some of what he said on his blog on the 10th of June (So this is his words):
”
…
As soon as the e-book is available I will give it away for FREE. In this book you will learn:
-How we build a qualified database of only 477 people over a TWO MONTH period to start business two and made $66 157.77 or R532 470.00 NET PROFIT on the first day.
-What product and services we have used.
-How we developed the products of business two over a two month period
-Links to the two online businesses – websites – we have build.
-Proof of income
…
”
So what he is saying is that it took 2 months to create the products and to get the 477 people.
He has also said that he will provide the proof of this in his ebook that you are asking for. So I guess we will need to wait for that before we can make any judgments!
As far as I can understand, he also stated that he has deliberately left out the details of the business, and I think that was a good decision, because otherwise the general public (those who are not part of the 477) will also subscribe and possibly pay for the product, which will skew the income results.
I am actually also happy with the video (As posted by Leon above) with the proof and the three or was it four people who verified the statements. I am of the opinion that showing a video like that is somewhat better than putting a photoshop edited statement on the internet as proof. As far as I can gather they are verifying the proof of payments which are placed in files – no photoshop there.
But as you said, this is not unheard of on the Internet.
By the way, you should rather question Shaun Casey’s business practices. They took me for a ride for almost a R1000 this weekend – I had to cancel the transaction with my bank and cancel my credit card. Their systems don’t work and they use hard selling techniques. I have subscribed for one of his front end products for a few dollars that I am still waiting for, and he never told me that I have subscribed for a recurring product in the same go! I hate it when this happens!
The front end product that I have bought still did not arrive in the mail, and it is about a month now.
The next day when I purchased this front end product, I have received a call. They tried some hard selling techniques to sell to me a $5000 product. I eventually said no and the guy got nasty over the phone.
I think you can rather spend time to investigate this guy. That is my review based on my personal experience.
My intention was not one of attack, but rather a request to not attach a shame label to someone without concrete proof. The reason that I say this, is because what will happen if I one day become publicly known (or someone else here), and you do the same without proof to me or someone else? That is my concern… I feel you can still question, but like I have read the other day on another blog about affiliates and review sites is the following: You get a lot of review sites with affiliates who have not bought the product or service, but still make a review. What integrity is there in that practice, and are you not following the same practice to some degree here? What investigation did you do, or was it hear say?
Justin Harrison said,
Wrote on August 3, 2009 @ 3:39 pm
Pat, again you are missing the key points we have made
1) When you make a claim, more especially if you make this claim to promote yourself or your product, you need to offer compelling evidence. I personally found the video very iffy, not once does the web audience get an actual look at the businesses, the figures etc. This is not to say I doubt its authenticity, but as a marketer he could have done a better job here to remove the doubt.
2) With regards to Shaun Casey, we’ll take a look his products, but this was not the topic of Luis discussion, and trust me if we see something questionable we’ll name and shame him and as with Hannes give him a chance to respond as well.
3) As a final point in response to you allegation that we have not followed due process in as you put it “attaching a label to Hannes”, Luis expressed his points which Hannes has every opportunity to respond to, as I said in the podcast if he meets that request we will be happy to reverse our view and give him the thumbs up.
The bottom line (once again) we are tired of people making claims that this business is “click click easy”, and anyone who tells you that in any part of their message is full of BS as far as I am concerned.
Its admirable that you are loyal to the ideals that Hannes has installed in his following, but at the end of the day never let the smaller parts of the overall message escape some common logic.
Luis Teixeira from www.luisteixeira.co.za said,
Wrote on August 3, 2009 @ 4:27 pm
HI everyone and thanks for all your comments even the one dissing my website. LOL
My main point of concern is that Pat you are getting way off topic here. I would like to mention again there is no way a person can start an online business in one day and make $80 000 or so. That is why I decided to call a name and shame. And ask Hannes Dreyer to explain.
There are a lot of people who are looking for ways to generate money online. I have personally wasted a lot of money buying the next big thing. That is why I am privileged to be on “The Internet Marketing Podcast Show” I get to ask the questions that is relevant to starting a online business. Also make people aware that you do not have to spend money to start your online business. Like I have said to Justin I think we have a responsibility to the listeners to make them aware of what is going on out there. Especially in South Africa. As we South Africans need to help each other.
I am currently mentoring under Justin and let me tell you one thing. It ain’t easy it does not happen over night and there is a lot of work that needs to be done. From what I have currently learnt from Justin, there is the following. There is ways to make $80 000 days or day, but there probably is 5 to 6 months of planning for that day!(Just my thoughts)or even longer planning.
My only thoughts on the matter are exactly what was said on the podcast. People need to be very careful before taking your credit card out and paying for information. This is the point I am and will keep on making on the podcast.
As for your issue with Shawn Casey? Why are you using him if you swear by Hannes Dreyer and all his results?
Pat said,
Wrote on August 3, 2009 @ 5:14 pm
Luis in response, I hope that Justin also teaches you that you need to invest in yourself first, and I also hope that he does not teaches you to only invest in his mentoring but also in other courses as well. Dr Hannes has always advocated this, that is why I am also looking at what others are doing, as well as what Justin is doing. Even if I lost money with a training course and even time, guess what – I still learn. I don’t take it as bad or as a waste, because I do not think on that level. I have learned best from my mistakes, as well as those of others. I will definitely not set up a business model like Shaun Casey for example.
All I have to say Luis is that you should also verify and proof your allegations before attaching a label. If you read the text before the podcast “Luis officially goes on a rampage naming and shaming a well known property expert” it clearly implies the label you are attaching and you give no reference or proof of this. I doubt that Dr Hannes will ever submit at this level, and waste time on this, so won’t be surprised if he does not respond.
And to your comment “My main point of concern is that Pat you are getting way off topic here. I would like to mention again there is no way a person can start an online business in one day and make $80 000 or so.”
There is no such claim, read his blog carefully, it states TWO MONTHS, not one day! That is why I say your claims are unfounded, and if I say this, it is not off topic either.
As a lawyer myself, all I can say is that you might have opened up yourself for legal action. You better hope that Dr Hannes does not read this.
If you have a responsibility to your listeners, as you say, then you must also take the responsibility to research your topic thoroughly, before making it public. Such as reading his blog and understanding that it says TWO MONTHS not one day. (Yes I know you have challenged him, but the labeling is also clear in the text before the podcast player!). I therefore felt that it is my responsibility to point out this misinterpretation of his blog.
I guess people don’t read, that is why we as lawyers make money
.
Justin Harrison said,
Wrote on August 3, 2009 @ 5:42 pm
Pat,
Anyone who does business online opens themselves up to public scrutiny, this is part and parcel of the transparent world we call the internet.
As an attorney you of all people should know that word play can be a very powerful or destructive thing, and the lines of interpretation are not always clear, hence me FORCING THE POINT AGAIN… when marketers get away from all this clever word play and focus on the facts, they have me paying attention, WE ARE ALL tuned out to the BS hype that surrounds our industry.
Finally on your point that we should, “hope that Dr Hannes does not read this, because we might have opened up ourselves for legal action”, is completely ridiculous and frankly a very careless statement.
Not only does Hannes Dryer state on his site that he “wants to test and get good and bad comments on his blog from the believers and non believers”, but any marketer with half a brain will tell you that when people talk about you in the bloggershere, negative or positive this is one of the most powerful ways and opportunities to connect with an audience and gain exposure.
Pat said,
Wrote on August 3, 2009 @ 6:13 pm
I have yet to meet an IM that does not use powerful word play. Hence what you said, we need to use common sense, which I did by verifying the accusations (which was also powerful word play). I am also totally for the public scrutiny thing. However it should be in good taste. My comments are an attempt to constructive criticism, and I trust that it is taken up like that by this community. I think best would be to wait for his e-book.
Justin Harrison said,
Wrote on August 4, 2009 @ 9:30 am
Hi Pat, we welcome all communication on this blog, negative, positive and everything in between and all forms of critique are truly welcomed to help us make this a better information source for all.
I look forward to the e-Book being published by Hannes and I will personally take a read through it and offer my input, I am however not subscribed to his list so perhaps when the report is out, you could return to this post and just drop a follow up comment with a note.
Once again thank you for adding value to this healthy debate, and I will be certain to do a follow up on the Hannes Dreyer issue that Luis brought up inb the podcast, and as I said in the podcast, if he proves legit with this offer, I will be happy to offer my recommendation, however if its not I will retain my responsibility in offering my objective opinions.
Roelof Vermeulen said,
Wrote on August 4, 2009 @ 9:48 am
Hi Pat
I would like to step in here and just bring a bit of perspective from my side.
I am myself a Hannes Dreyer follower and have the greatest respect for him with regards to his business rules and ethics. He is a terrific business man and has the ability to identify opportunities and turn it into gold. His formula for riches fits the profile of Internet business perfectly as it is low risk high return.
He also understands the art of selling better than most and to be honest to have reached the level he was at in Old Mutual took not only talent but a master of the art of selling.
I am yet to see Hannes initiating something without the objective to make money. At the current moment he is creating great hype for an opportunity on the Internet, In the Business Referral System he identified and that is 100% acceptable.
Now to my concerns. I have specialised in Internet marketing for the past 11 years. I have successfully competed on the most competitive markets and the least competitive markets, from corporate and home business levels. I am also a trained facilitator and have been one for the past 18 years.
Hannes is touching a single potential gold mine with his BRS system. However selling an affiliate program for R160 is one of the ways he generates money for a system that clearly is a network he is building for himself to launch any form of product or service for passive income.
This was first done years ago and is nothing new. The online gambling industry for example has been running on similar systems since 1998, this put them light years ahead of many other industries. Infact it has transformed into something much greater than what it was back then and the power of affiliate marketing with integration of data mining and CRM is light years ahead of the BRS system as it is right now, and it is FREE unless you are an advertiser.
A further concern that I have is this. Just having a website doesn’t mean that you are visible on the Internet. In 2008 the official stats said that more than 8 domains were registered each second! Yes each second! And this was only for your 5 top TLD’s. This means without proper internet marketing your site is nowhere to be found. A 6-page website will not serve that purpose as it is a drop in the ocean.
I am very concerned about what Hannes is doing here, he is creating a platform for many people to loose their money and waste their time, and he is probably not doing it on purpose but I am truly concerned that many people are going to race after this dream bubble and when it burst, loose all believe in Internet Marketing.
Wasim said,
Wrote on August 5, 2009 @ 2:36 pm
Very off topic request here, but do you think you guys can turn the volume of the music in the background down while you’re talking or just turn it off, it’s so distracting.
Sorry, carry on !!!
Justin Harrison said,
Wrote on August 5, 2009 @ 2:45 pm
Hey Wasim, I am sure we can make a plan and turn it right down next time
Thanks for the feedback.
Pat said,
Wrote on August 7, 2009 @ 7:44 am
Justin,
(Possibly off topic) But because I have mentioned it, I feel I have to close the issue. We have resolved the Shaun Casey issue, about the payment, so I am happy about that, and I have received the products that I have purchased late yesterday. Can’t wait to go through them now.